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Any Options Other Than Limit Switches?
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(Agricultural)
(OP)
3 Dec 09 19:23Hello!!
I have been asked to use a small (1/30 hp) worm drive gearmotor (12V DC) to rotate a discharge chute in response to operator input.
What is the best way to limit the maximum travel of the chute to 180 degrees? I know I could use limit switches/relays, but I'm hoping for a "cleaner" solution.
Would a mechanical stop in conjunction with an "amp" switch to protect the gearmotor be a good idea? I'm thinking that an older automobile power window system would be similar.
Since I rarely delve into electrical projects at work, any ideas or suppliers for components would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, ~Eric
(Military)
3 Dec 09 22:09If you can find a safe place to install an absolute position sensor (one that knows where it is even on power up), then you could add an intelligent control system for the ideal solution (maximum flexibility, self-monitoring, safety). But even then, it might be wise to add safety limit switches near the extreme positions if bad things happen past the ends.
Another trick is to design the mechanical drive system so that it simply reverses direction at the extreme limits. In other words, the chute moves back and forth while the motor just keeps going. **Like windshield wipers.** This way there is no end stop to worry about. All you have to deal with then is getting it to stop in the correct locations, but that may be much less critical and perhaps can better tolerate failures.
(Mechanical)
3 Dec 09 22:52I've been through this and can say unless you want to spend big money, the limit switch is as good and reliable a solution as any and is probably the most reasonable.In addition you can protect the motor, by using the proper fuse to cut power (increased current caused by hitting a spring over-travel stop) due to switch failure.
(Electrical)
4 Dec 09 12:23Limit "switches" are the best way to go, although I would try to use inductive proximity switches if possible. Even if the chute is not ferrous metal, you can attach a small metal target to it.An "amp switch" would be expensive and tricky to set up to eliminate false trips. You would also be subjecting the mechanism to stress each time you went to a limit.I would use (2) prox switches and a micro PLC. I tend to favor Allen Bradley MicroLogix but others are available. They cost well under $200 and considering the wiring you save and the flexibility I think they are worth it.AB has a free version of the programming software for the small MicroLogix's.Automation Direct (and others) have small PLCs with inexpensive software.If you do it with relays, it requires (2) 3 pole relays to reverse a DC motor and detect the limits.Charlie
Charlie Gill
--www.calibrator.com--
(Electrical)
4 Dec 09 12:51I did a quick check...Automation Direct DL05part# D0-05DR, 8 DC IN, 6 Relay OUT, $99.Software is free for a 100 word program which will be plenty for your application.This gives you all the IO you need for (2) limit switches, Operator input switch(es), motor leads, alarm light, etc.Charlie
Charlie Gill
--www.calibrator.com--
(Electrical)
4 Dec 09 15:55Since it is operator directed, all you need are two limit switches in series and two diodes. When the limit switch opens, the diode in parallel with the switch contact will only allow current in the reverse direction. I can think of other ways but this seems simple and cheap.
(Electrical)
5 Dec 09 07:59I hadn't thought of using diodes, but you are right. I always try to do everything in softwareA DPDT switch, 2 diodes and 2 limit switches will do quite nicely.Simple is better (but software is more fun).Charlie
Charlie Gill
--www.calibrator.com--
(Mechanical)
5 Dec 09 18:33Why not just stop the gear teeth at 180 and 0 and then undercut the rest of the tooth area. That way the worm can run without a limit switch or proximity sensor or anything else unless the operator needs feedback that the limit has been reached. The trick is getting the gear to re-start when the direction is reversed. I have worked with this type of system before with the exception being that the gears were a rod and nut. If you monitor the motor back emf then you should be able to tell when the gear is running free (that would be the fun software part).
Harold
SW2009 SP4.0 OPW2009 SP2 Win XP Pro 2002 SP3
Dell 690, Xeon 5160 @3.00GHz, 3.25GB RAM
nVidia Quadro FX4600
www.lumenflow.com
(Electrical)
6 Dec 09 01:22"stop the gear teeth at 180 and 0 and then undercut the rest of the tooth area"
"you should be able to tell when the gear is running free"
You mean by the grinding sound of the last tooth?
(Mechanical)
6 Dec 09 20:04Why would it grind OperaHouse? If the gear teeth are undercut to the minor diameter then it should just sit there and go "click, click, click..." until the direction is reversed. Why wouldn't it work on a worm gear as well as it works for a nut and screw? Perhaps I'm missing something but if the gears are aligned right and the pre-load is correct then the gear should just rethread onto the worm. As for being able to tell that the worm is running free that should be detectable by watching the current draw.Personally I do not like limit switches. Parts wear and the limit switch settings don't remain constant over time. There's always some hysteresis is a limit switch as well. I've had too many of them fail to want them in a system. If you have no choice (software options are not available) then that's fine. When a limit switch fails it doesn't make grinding sounds. The motor dogs down until the gear head strips and then there's a bigger problem.Just my opinion based on my experiences so feel free to ignore it!
Harold
SW2009 SP4.0 OPW2009 SP2 Win XP Pro 2002 SP3
Dell 690, Xeon 5160 @3.00GHz, 3.25GB RAM
nVidia Quadro FX4600
www.lumenflow.com
(Mechanical)
7 Dec 09 10:02Interesting approach with the gear. The torque acting on the gear would have to reverse at some point during engagement for it to work though, correct?
What kind of motor is it? If it's an AC motor, maybe you could count line cycles. Of course if you missed one every so often you could have a cumulative error build up.
(Electrical)
8 Dec 09 08:36I'm thinking geneva gear
Ed
(Agricultural)
(OP)
8 Dec 09 16:19Thanks for all of your helpful replies!!
I guess I was being a little naïve to think I could effectively eliminate limit switches from this project. I would still like to know how older (1980's - 90's) automobile power window systems work. I've never seen one use limit switches, and I don't think the motor is monitored by a control unit. Anybody know what the concept is?
VE1BLL/CharlieGill:
I think you're both right on as far as the ideal solution (max flexibility, safety, etc), but for now I would like to limit the travel of the chute without utilizing a control system/PLC. Although that may change by the time this project is complete.
OperaHouse:
A DPDT switch, 2 diodes and 2 limit/proximity switches would be fairly simple.
The 12V DC gearmotor has a "starting" current of 12 A. Are there any recommendations for good limit switch suppliers/components that will handle this current? Like CharlieGill suggested, I think an inductive proximity switch (or any sealed magnetic type switch) suitable for agricultural applications would be best.
(Military)
8 Dec 09 17:22One concept I've never had the chance to implement is that limit switches (or functional equivalent) should be installed in a location so that if they fail, they're destroyed. This may inspire them not to fail (joke).
More seriously, this sort of approach may provide a simple and inherent fail-safe if you can arrange things so that the resultant mechanical overshoot either opens the circuit, or shorts it to ground (and thus opens a breaker).
For example - imagine a glass fuse mounted at the ultimate mechanical limit of motion.
(Electrical)
9 Dec 09 01:39Some of the mid-90's window controllers used current sensing to detect when the motor had either reached the open or closed position, or had hit an obstruction like an arm or a head in the aperture. The company I worked for at the time was making them.
----------------------------------
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
(Mechanical)
9 Dec 09 09:37How do current sensing methods get pass the initial high starting current?
(Electrical)
9 Dec 09 10:14A simple current limiting method is to use a lamp in series. This does not work if the motor is loaded close to its maximum. Resistance of the lamp greatly increases as current rises. I have used in place of fuses when diagnosing automotive problems. Windshield wipers easily work with a headlight lamp. Recommended that you have very soft stops to allow time for the lamp to heat.
A variation of this is to use resettable PTTC thermal fuses. Specs are like nailing jelly to a tree. Best to greatly undersize the fuse to actual current drawn compared to fuse rating.
The trouble with methods like this are the human operator. Typically bored and easy to amuse, I think they would just hang on a chute and let the teeth make music with the chopped off teeth method. I expect slamming into a stop would be a typical mode of operation for an operator.
I had a bus manufacturer that wanted to eliminate switches on a wheel chair lift with a current sensor. I made him buy a graphing DVM to monitor current. He was thrilled to get an excuise to buy one. Once he got the data, it was doubtful that even a micro could figure out the wild current swings from an end of travel stop.
(Military)
9 Dec 09 11:18I still think that the ultimate solution is the one I proposed at the very top (1st reply, 2nd para).
Make the drive mechanism inherently back-and-forth with no end stops (just like windshield wipers). Then the only remaining problem is to have the chute auto-park in the correct locations.
With this approach there is no destructive failure mode. If it overshoots the mark, the mechanism just turns around anyway and comes back from the other direction.
And furthermore, an operator over-ride system can be provided in case the auto park sensors fail.
(Mechanical)
18 Dec 09 13:32The pop-up headlights on my Vette use the "overcurrent on smashing into something" method.
I have to index the worm wheel often to find fresh teeth...
(do not recommend!)
(Industrial)
22 Feb 10 18:49I made a simple controller a few years ago to move a rack and pinion driven by an inexpensive 12VDC wiper motor (about $25 then) made by AM equipment. The positioner controlled doors and moved until it stalled. The motor had much more torque than necessary so a current limit was advisable to prevent damage and injuries. Since the travel and mounting varied, limit switches were not a good option anyway.
I used IR3312 high side drivers (max 100A) and nmosfet low side drivers. The high side drivers have current limiting and the current is proportional to the voltage on the current resistor so I used a 2-ch I2C adc to measure the current. The current limit was adjusted with rocker switches, 8 steps from 4 to 32A. The adjustment wasn't critical. Once the motor stalled the current rose so quickly that all currents above the normal load had about the same stopping time. This was controlled with a $1 AT89C2051 micro processor. I charged $100 each for these in single quantities, less than a simple PLC without an analog input.
This had some significant advantages over limit switch designs.
1)No wiring or mounting for limit switches and no adjustment.
2)This would stop if something or someone was stuck in the actuator or the actuator bound up, without damage to the motor, assembly or person.
This worked great. I highly recommend simplifying the design as much as you can. I worked on another design that used limit switches to lower a plasma tv over the windshield in a motor home. If the limit switches failed the electric actuator burned up and if the little old lady got between the TV and windshield it pushed her out onto the ground, apparently a bad thing.
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There are “limit switches” and “micro switches” as switches that are inexpensive and readily available.
But be careful if you are selecting them based on price alone.
In recent years, machines have become smaller and more precise, and the number of designers and device users who have this problem is increasing.
In the background, it is not uncommon for people to be unaware of the characteristics of micro switches when using them.
In this article, we will explain the basic knowledge of micro switches and their advantages and disadvantages for each application.
We will also explain METROL's "precision positioning touch switches" from the perspective of a "third switch" that is not a micro switch nor limit switch.
●What you can learn from this article
・Basic knowledge of micro switches and limit switches
・Three risks that tend to be overlooked when selecting switches
・Differences between micro switches and Metrol’s precision positioning switches
・A collection of use cases of precision positioning switches
We publish the [collection of touch switch introduction cases] that we would like to show those who are involved in design, production technology, purchasing, and maintenance who deal with switches!
What are the roles of micro switches and limit switches? What is a switch in the first place?As the name suggests, a switch is something that "switches".
There are three typical contact switches as below:
A switch opens and closes an electrical circuit (ON/OFF).
Therefore, switches are incorporated into electric products around us, robots, and production facilities, etc. to perform control.
First, we will explain the characteristics of micro switches and limit switches.
A micro switch is a small plastic-encased switch with a snap action mechanism and contacts. (See Fig. 1)
When a part called an actuator is moved up and down, the internal contact opens and closes, turning power on and off.
A limit switch is a switch covered with a plastic or metal cover to make a micro switch waterproof and dustproof.
Its role is to detect the presence or absence like a micro switch, but it is used in a harsh environment with water, oil, dust, etc.
When operating, a part called a dog* is attached to the facility and used by operating the actuator part of the limit switch. (See Fig. 2)
What is a dog?
A part installed in a machine or facility to push in or back the actuator of a limit switch
▲ (Fig. 2) Limit switch operation What is the role of a micro switch, “presence/absence detection”?Both micro switches and limit switches play the role of "presence/absence detection or existence detection" because they notify the existence of the detected object when it comes into contact with the actuator.
What is “presence/absence detection”?
and so on. (See Fig. 3)
▲ (Fig. 3) ：Microswitch Applications ＝“presence/absence detection” Applications of micro switches (limit switches)Micro switches are used in a variety of places for presence/absence detection, to home appliances to industrial production facilities.
For example
Home appliances:
Industrial products and facilities:
Microswitches are embedded in all of these presence/absence detection mechanisms.
General specifications of micro switchesSome common specifications include:
From the above, it can be said that the micro switch is a low-cost switch useful in a clean environment where precision is not required.
*Difference between "Mechanical life" and "Electrical life"
Contact us to discuss your requirements of Power Push Button Switch. Our experienced sales team can help you identify the options that best suit your needs.
Mechanical Life: Refers to the maximum number of times a switch can operate (ON/OFF). This can also be tested with no current flowing. It refers to the period of time before the switch physically breaks down or stops operating.
Electrical life: The endurance performance when the switch is turned on and off at the specified operating frequency under a load that keeps the voltage and current at the rated values. As the switch conducts current, the contacts wear out and eventually stop the current flow. It is usually shorter than the mechanical life.
In other words, it may be easier to understand if you think of the mechanical life as the maximum number of times you can “push” and the electrical life as the maximum number of times you can “flow”.
What are the 3 RISKS hidden in switch selection?The price of a micro switch is attractive in terms of design, but the cost of the switch itself (initial cost) is just the tip of the total cost iceberg. Keep in mind that improper use and usage can lead to increased costs.
Risks that lead to cost increases in the long term can be broadly divided into three categories.
Repair costs due to switch failure (labor, travel, service costs)
Facility outages incur costs for maintenance staff urgently dispatched to the site to respond. This is the source of potential cost increases.
Appropriate cost management is required based on the purchase of spare parts for sensors and the track record of paid repairs.
This is the cost associated with installing the intermediate mechanism required for switch operation.
Installing a dog or actuator to operate a micro switch may result in costs such as increased space and parts, increased facility size, and increased assembly time.
Examples: Intermediary actuators, design/manufacturing costs and assembly time of dogs, potential lost costs due to space requirements
Even if the performance of the machine as a whole is excellent, frequent failures or malfunctions in individual sub-functions (e.g. door opening/closing, loading/unloading) and short stoppages can cause customer dissatisfaction and damage to the brand image.
This leads to
・Decrease in facility utilization/availability *1
・Opportunity loss due to idle machines
and so on, also a loss for the user.
You should avoid the situation in which an expensive facility stops due to a switch failure, as it costs more to repair a damaged brand image.
In conclusion, it is necessary to pay attention to future opportunity loss (switching to other companies, etc.) due to the deterioration of the brand image.
*1: What is the availability?
It refers to “the percentage of time that the facility is operating normally when you want to operate it.”
When the facility stops due to failure or error (short stoppage), the availability decreases.
There are quite a few cases in which the lack of specifications is discovered later, triggered by troubles caused by defective or damaged micro switches.
Troubles caused by micro switches are triggered when the lack of specifications becomes apparent later. Below are three cases.
Case 1: Using micro switches for harsh environmentsMany micro switches are IP40 (non-waterproof, non-dustproof), so moisture, water, oil, and chips can cause problems such as corrosion and deterioration.
Assume that the user's site is an environment that leads to problems, even if it is not assumed at the design stage.
If a micro switch for presence/absence detection is used for positioning or returning to origin that requires precision, there is a risk of instability.
If the electrical life limit is exceeded, or if the switch is used in an application where a strong impact is applied to the switch, failure will occur early.
Avoid using the switch itself as a stopper when using it to limit the range of motion of the machine.
If the load is large, the plastic case may crack or warp, or the mounting position may shift.
It is better to think that the concept of 'repeatability' does not exist in principle of micro switches for presence/absence detection.
The reason is because there is a mechanism called "snap action mechanism*."
The "snap action mechanism" is a mechanism that quickly contacts and releases the contact with a "snap" via a leaf spring when turning on and off, and a micro switch is defined as a switch with this mechanism. (See the video)
This snap action mechanism generates a hysteresis*, and the reproducibility of the switch operation timing is not stable, which means the repeatability is low. Therefore, the snap action itself is effective in extending the life of the contact, but it works in the direction of lowering the accuracy.
*The birth background of the "snap action mechanism"... In the past, AC 100V was the main power supply and a large voltage current flowed through the contacts, so a structure called "snap action" was born to prevent the contacts from welding or galvanic corrosion by quickly contacting and releasing the contacts. *What is hysteresis? The distance between the point where the actuator moves for the first time from the free position when the actuator is pushed in, and the point where it moves for the first time when returning.▲
Snap action mechanism = Operation with a "snap" sound by a leaf spring
4 points for switch selectionFrom the design stage, it is important to rigorously estimate the usage conditions of the switch.
Avoiding troubles before they occur leads to future maintenance and after-sales service cost reductions and customer satisfaction.
Below are four things to consider when selecting:
So, what other options exist besides micro switches?
We will explain METROL's "precision positioning touch switches" that are different from micro switches.
METROL's "precision positioning touch switches" were developed based on the design concept of a contact-type switch with high durability that are versatile and can be used in a variety of facilities, and perform high-precision detection even in harsh environments.
Their uses are similar to those of micro switches and limit switches, but the development concept is significantly different from that of "presence/absence detection."
We will explain the five reasons why positioning touch switches are selected.
▲High-precision positioning touch switches with various sizes and functions Reason 1: Precise positioning is possible instead of presence/absence detectionPrecision positioning touch switches feature a high repeatability of ±0.5 μm to ±10 μm.
Since there is no hysteresis, positioning is possible with higher repeatability than presence/absence detection.
Unlike micro switches, one of the reasons for its high precision is that it does not have a snap action mechanism.
Combining it with the machine coordinates of facilities and devices enables highly accurate positioning and measurement on the order of microns.
Long-term endurance tests are conducted using endurance test equipment dedicated to touch switches to confirm accuracy. (See the video)
Depending on the series, we guarantee an accuracy life of 1,000,000 times for short ones and 10,000,000 times for long ones.
It is so waterproof and dustproof that it is used inside machine tools that use cutting oil.
Unlike plastic switches, most of them are covered with a metal case and have IP67 (resistance to water, oil, dust, etc.) specifications.
For switches with IP67 or higher, a waterproof test is performed before shipment.
It does not require a dog like a limit switch, making the machine smaller and reducing assembly man-hours.
Reason 5: 100% domestic production, easy customizationAll series are planned, designed, and manufactured at our factory in Tokyo, and many switches can be customized and made to order according to standards such as shape, material, contact force, and cable length.
Precision positioning touch switches [Introduction cases]Many precision positioning touch switches have been introduced in applications such as:
The development of the "precision positioning switch" was triggered by the increasing need for jigs for automatic equipment and high-precision sensors that determine the origin of stages.
When automatic equipment and NC machine tools began to spread rapidly, there were few sensors suitable for micron precision detection, and inexpensive micro switches and proximity sensors were used instead.
Because micro switches are primarily intended for “presence/absence detection”, micron-precision applications require careful judgment.
As a result, erroneous detection and durability problems occurred, and the "precision positioning switch" was born as a product to meet these needs.
We have a wide lineup of precision positioning touch switches, but we would like to introduce the best-selling representative six series.
① Ultra-compact, high-precision [PT series]
World's smallest size, high-precision series
The series features small size but high repeatability.
Even though it is ultra-compact with a diameter of φ5mm, it has a repeatability of 1μm and is often used in narrow spaces.
[PT series] Evaluation by users who adopted 👤“With a wide variety of sizes, we are satisfied with the delivery time and price. ” 👤"For seating. Accurate and reliable detection is possible. Best for small and tight spaces. ” 👤"Used to measure the thrust of our machinery. We adopted this ultra-compact product for use in narrow spaces. ” 口click here for buyer reviews
② High-precision, high-durability switch [MT series]
Achieves precise positioning and centering. Ultra precision touch switch
The MT series is our most accurate series.
Although the size is slightly larger, the built-in "bearing" demonstrates a high repeatability of 0.5 μm.
[MT series] Evaluation by users who adopted 👤"There had been a phenomenon that the line had stopped due to malfunction, so we installed it to reduce judgment errors. ” 👤“Previously, we measured the length of a workpiece with a side length sensor and distinguished different types. This product is a ON/OFF type, but it can be handled by combining multiple items, resulting in cost reduction. In addition, the environment is harsh, but it works stably. ” 口click here for buyer reviews
③Ultra-compact ball type [BP series]
Playing two roles of ball plunger and switch
An ultra-compact series that incorporates a switch into a ball plunger.
The ball-type contact allows for diagonal and sliding movement.
* Normally, it is necessary to operate (ON/OFF) from the "straight direction".
[BP series] Evaluation by users who adopted 👤"It's convenient because you can hit it from any direction. ” 👤"It is used for confirming the return of the slide core of the mold. The ball plunger and limit switch were installed separately, but this one is enough, and you don't have to think about the position of the limit switch in the narrow opening. ” 👤“With limit switches, we have to be careful about the direction of entry, but this structure was helpful because conventional switches would break if they entered from multiple directions. ” 👤"We use it as a backlash killer for product bearings. We think it's an ideal product that has both a ball plunger and a switch function in a compact body." 口click here for buyer reviews
④ High cost performance switch [CS series]
The CS series is a best-selling touch switch that comes in a reasonable price range, with just the right size and a wide variety of shapes.
[CS series] Evaluation by users who adopted 👤"Resolution is high and reliable" 👤"Used for moving end point detection of the device. The end point is in an environment in which it changes slightly due to the external environment, but the touch sensor can reliably detect the contact of the workpiece. In addition, it's inexpensive. ” 👤"Even in areas where we are concerned about minute positional misalignment of the workpiece, the resolution and repeatability are high and excellent. It seems to be reliable for long-term use of 10 million times." 口click here for buyer reviews
⑤ Heat-resistant 200 degree switch [HT series]
A heat-resistant touch switch that can withstand temperatures up to about 200 degrees.
There are many introduction results mainly in mold adhesion confirmation and semiconductor manufacturing processes.
⑥Low outgassing / vacuum environment compatible switch [GN series]
Widely adopted in semiconductor manufacturing lines and vacuum chambers
This touch switch is made of materials that do not easily generate "outgassing" that causes contamination even in a vacuum environment.
Manufactured in a clean room to avoid contamination.
The series introduced so far is only a part, and there are many other variations.
If the specifications and conditions of use are fixed, you can search by narrowing down with the button below.
The advantages of micro switches are, above all, their ease of use, availability, and low cost.
Not all products require micron-level precision and tough durability.
There is no need for over-engineered precision touch switches for presence/absence detection of mice and home appliances.
If the total cost goes up, it cannot be said that the product design meets the needs of the user.
It is necessary to select the optimum switch with the right item in the right place, whether price is the priority or accuracy and usability are the priority.
Summary: Points to keep in mind when selecting a switch
As you can see from the three risks that are often overlooked,
・When the switch on the door of the home appliance is broken
・When a door with a safety device of a production facility costing tens of millions of yen is broken
the scope of impact and the urgency are unmatched.
If the facility stops, production activities will stop.
It is important to determine whether this is an acceptable case for general consumer goods, or whether it is an industrial product that requires professional reliability.
At the design stage, after considering what are the long-term cost drivers of the switches to be adopted, it is important to select from among the appropriate options without being confused by the initial cost.
You can purchase hereMetrol Direct Shopping EC Site [touch switch]
misumi.com
AutomationDirect
Our engineers will respond to any questions regarding product usage methods or requests to customize products.
We can provide our best support if details about application, usage environment and what kind of workpieces will be detected can be provided.
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Our engineers will respond to any questions regarding product usage methods or requests to customize products.
We can provide our best support if details about application, usage environment and what kind of workpieces will be detected can be provided.
Use our contact form below to contact us.
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