An anchor bolt is a unique type of fastener that&#;s designed to secure an object or structural component to a concrete surface. They don&#;t feature the same long shank with a flat tip as other bolts. Rather, anchor bolts feature a unique design that allows for embedding inside of concrete. There are several types of anchor bolts, however, each of which is used for a different purpose.
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A cast-in-place anchor bolt is a type of anchor bolt that lives up to its namesake by being cast inside of concrete. It&#;s similar to a traditional bolt but with a few nuances. Cast-in-place anchor bolts almost always have a hexagonal head, whereas traditional bolts can have a variety of heads. More importantly, cast-in-place anchor bolts are installed upside down. The head is inserted into an open cavity of the concrete, after which it&#;s cast in place. Casting requires the use of concrete. Concrete is poured in the cavity so that it encompasses the anchor bolt.
Another common type of anchor bolt is post-installed. Post-installed anchor bolts consist of a similar design as cast-in-place anchor bolts. They both feature a hexagonal head, and they are both installed upside down with the head first. The difference is that post-installed anchor bolts are installed in a pre-drilled hole, whereas cast-in-place anchor bolts are installed inside of a cavity that&#;s later filled with additional concrete.
There are also expansion anchor bolts. Expansion anchor bolts are those that expand when installed inside of concrete. To use an expansion anchor bolt, you&#;ll need to drill a hole into the concrete surface. You can then install the expansion anchor bolt inside of this pre-drilled hole. As the expansion anchor bolt enters the hole, it will expand. This expansion helps to secure the anchor bolt &#; as well as the structural component or object to which it&#;s connected &#; in place. Technically speaking, an expansion bolt is a type of post-installed anchor bolt because it&#;s installed in a pre-drilled hole.
Most anchor bolts can be classified as either cast-in-place or post-installed. Cast-in-place anchor bolts are the most common. They are installed inside of a cavity of a concrete surface, after which they are cast in place. Post-installed anchor bolts, on the other hand, are installed inside of a pre-drilled hole. Expansion anchor bolts are considered post-installed. Other types of post-installed anchor bolts include undercut, self-tapping and power-actuated.
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Original Post
Jimmy Yammine
· Joined Apr · Points: 1,761
Dec 29, · Ehden, LBI am currently developing a crag and am using expansion bolts.
My question to this enlightened community is why glue-ins are seen in a more favourable light?
More importantly, does this difference, which I'm assuming is its attachment to the rock around the bolt, warrant the mess of glue-ins.
P.S this has to do with limestone bolting in the mountains. NO humidity, SS bolts and cool temps.
Kristoffer Wickstrom
· Joined Feb · Points: 51
Dec 29, · Unknown HometownI would think it all boils down to the quality of limestone you are dealing with and how dimensionally correct of a hole you are able to drill within that rock. I have placed glue-ins (Chem-Stud), wedge bolts and Cobra SuperSleeves, the latter ended up being *my* preferred bolt for the limestone we were climbing.
Taylor Spiegelberg
· Joined May · Points: 1,686
Dec 29, · WYI decided to start using glue in's in limestone for several reasons:
1. Lots of it is soft. Ours has about a 1" crust that's bullet hard, then a soft (in comparison), spongey core. Expansion bolts like powerbolts and wedge bolts can't grab in that spongey rock. A glue in creates an insanely strong bond with the rock, eliminating that problem.
2. Glue in's are more sustainable in the long run. We will have to replace fewer bolts in the long term as most stainless steel glue in's have estimated life spans of 50-150 years depending on who you talk to.
3. I love the idea of place it and forget it. I didn't like thinking about routes I put up developing spinners with wedges bolts and becoming unsafe. Less anxiety for me!
4. Glue in's look SEXY on the wall! They can be camo'ed up real nice and are great for multi use areas.
5. Stainless steel glue ins are actually a pretty cheap option. Most people seem to be able to get glue in's for anywhere from $5-$8 after glue is factored in! Thats cheaper than a stainless powerbolt/hanger combo.
6. They're not messy once you get good at it. After you dial in how many pumps of glue it takes for it to just squeeze out of the hole, you will cut down on the mess and save glue.
Jim Titt
· Joined Nov · Points: 490
Dec 29, · GermanyJimmy Yammine wrote:I am currently developing a crag and am using expansion bolts.
My question to this enlightened community is why glue-ins are seen in a more favourable light?
More importantly, does this difference, which I'm assuming is its attachment to the rock around the bolt, warrant the mess of glue-ins.
P.S this has to do with limestone bolting in the mountains. NO humidity, SS bolts and cool temps.
Freeze/thaw is a big hassle, the German Alpine Association only reckon on 10 years for mechanical bolts in Alpine environments. The second issue, especially in limestones is that the extremely high pressure at the contact point of the expansion cone combined with water in the rock could produce rapid erosion of the rock, there are some theories about regarding this but no real decision on whether this occurs, just we know the things keep coming loose. Glue-ins are generally cheaper and certainly have a lower visual impact. And they are stronger.
Edit.And of course you can rap straight off them if you need to retreat or whatever.
The Morse-Bradys
· Joined Aug · Points: 4,704
Dec 29, · Lander, WY8 - The in the rock portion is incased in glue lessing the chance of corrosion
9 - Better quickdraw interface no gouging no chance of it getting snagged on a bolt stud
10 - Glue ins needs very little to no maintence never need tightening or resetting to have correct orientation
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Francis Haden
· Joined Dec · Points: 9
Dec 30, · Unknown HometownGlue-in fixings have numerous advantages over expansion fixings:
Perhaps stating the obvious but this type of fixing does requires additional competencies and experience to install glue-ins safely and efficiently. That said, it's like most things in life, source training from an adhesive supplier and combine that with a local area mentour so as to adapt work practices to climbing.
With time, most people can place an adequate number of glue-ins per day so then it really becomes an issue that fixings cannot be immediately loaded (generally as this is adhesive dependent). In the 'big picture' however, I rarely find waiting a day to be an issue considering the end product is a much better user experience and longterm outcome.
Jimmy Yammine
· Joined Apr · Points: 1,761
Dec 31, · Ehden, LBI would like to thank you all for the soberest and most to the point thread I've seen on MP.
I like your reasons and will be converting to glue-ins in the future.
Jason Todd
· Joined Apr · Points: 1,114
Dec 31, · Cody, WYOne of the downsides is the practical inability to move your bolt placement, should the clipping stance prove less than ideal. Carefully sussing out placements prior to putting the drill mitigates this, but mistakes in bolt placements are not uncommon.
Josh Janes
· Joined Jun · Points: 10,091
Mar 20, · Unknown HometownI see &#;rapping directly from them by threading the rope through the eye&#; as a disadvantage.
Any experienced installers have tips for keeping nozzles clog-free when equipping a route where there are unplanned or unavoidable delays between each bolt installation? I realize that doing as much prep work as possible beforehand minimizes this but it isn&#;t always avoidable. My current method is to squeeze a little more epoxy through the nozzle into my plastic bag holster every few minutes if I encounter delays.
Harumpfster Boondoggle
· Joined Apr · Points: 148
Mar 20, · Between yesterday and today.Kristoffer wrote:I would think it all boils down to the quality of limestone you are dealing with and how dimensionally correct of a hole you are able to drill within that rock. I have placed glue-ins (Chem-Stud), wedge bolts and Cobra SuperSleeves, the latter ended up being *my* preferred bolt for the limestone we were climbing.
Please be sure to use SS hardware.
In softer stone appropriate size wedge anchors (1/2") and length (4") can be entirely adequate and are reasonable. YMMV depending on your stone (limestone is generally fine).In softer stone appropriate size wedge anchors (1/2") and length (4") can be entirely adequate and are reasonable. YMMV depending on your stone (limestone is generally fine).Glue ins become more and more reasonable when many routes are going up at the same time to take advantage of glue issues. Wedge types more useful for a bolt here, a bolt there, sort of approaches (or hand drilled).Jim, you got any glue-ins that fit a 3/8" or 10mm hole?
Michael Schneiter
· Joined Apr · Points: 10,446
Mar 20, · Glenwood Springs, COJosh Janes wrote: I see &#;rapping directly from them by threading the rope through the eye&#; as a disadvantage.
Any experienced installers have tips for keeping nozzles clog-free when equipping a route where there are unplanned or unavoidable delays between each bolt installation? I realize that doing as much prep work as possible beforehand minimizes this but it isn&#;t always avoidable. My current method is to squeeze a little more epoxy through the nozzle into my plastic bag holster every few minutes if I encounter delays.
+1 for that. I also, in general, try to keep the glue as cool as possible by placing bolts while in the shade, at cooler times of the year and/or by keeping it in a soft-sided cooler, sometimes on route. As I'm sure you know, some glues cure faster than others. I know people who stay away from certain glues due to their respective cure times.
Francis Haden
· Joined Dec · Points: 9
Mar 22, · Unknown HometownJosh Janes wrote: I see &#;rapping directly from them by threading the rope through the eye&#; as a disadvantage.
Any experienced installers have tips for keeping nozzles clog-free when equipping a route where there are unplanned or unavoidable delays between each bolt installation? I realize that doing as much prep work as possible beforehand minimizes this but it isn&#;t always avoidable. My current method is to squeeze a little more epoxy through the nozzle into my plastic bag holster every few minutes if I encounter delays.
Why is that a disadvantage? It's one reason (amongst others) why Jim developed a round bar hanger for mechanical expansion anchors when there is a need to retreat from a high point on a route. Glue-ins do not present an issue in this regard.
The alternative is manky crap left behind on a hanger when people bail e.g.manky quick links that corrode shut and require a cordless angle grinder to remove.The alternative is manky crap left behind on a hanger when people bail e.g.manky quick links that corrode shut and require a cordless angle grinder to remove.For lower offs or abseil stations then obviously replaceable wear components should be fitted.
eli poss
· Joined May · Points: 525
Mar 22, · Durango, COFrancis Haden wrote:Why is that a disadvantage? It's one reason (amongst others) why Jim developed a round bar hanger for mechanical expansion anchors when there is a need to retreat from a high point on a route. Glue-ins do not present an issue in this regard.
The alternative is manky crap left behind on a hanger when people bail e.g.manky quick links that corrode shut and require a cordless angle grinder to remove.
For lower offs or abseil stations then obviously replaceable wear components should be fitted.
I think he was referring to people rapping or lowering through the eye of a glue-in normally, not as a way to bail. In Durango, we have a fair amount of glue-ins for TR anchors at one crag and they are getting worn from people rapping and lowering through them. Obviously this is not good because it is not easily replaceable. After several failed attempts, some of these anchors now have additional hardware to service the wear from descending, but several sets of hardware have been stolen off these glue-ins in the past.
Also, I've used Jim's rod hangers to rap directly through the hanger and I would reccomend it unless you're bailing as it will twist your rope somewhat. If you're installing a rap station to be used for descending the route then you should add a 2 quicklinks or a quicklink and a rap ring.
Michael R
· Joined Sep · Points: 0
Oct 31, · QuincyIt stinks when people decide that they can steal hardware and mess it up for the rest of us. I have not done this myself, but could stainless quicklinks be added to the TR bolts and then glue the quicklinks shut with weldbond or something to stop people from stealing them? Clearly it would make replacing more annoying because they would likely need to be cut with an angle grinder or something but seems like it might be a good idea.
I'm in the process of adding some bolts at a crag local to me and had not considered this until I read this post. I'll likely give it a try and see if I can find some good adhesive that will gunk up the threads enough that it won't be worth it to people to try and steal them. I also had not thought about the double quicklinks/rap ring. Makes sense and I have noticed this in most of the established climbing areas in New England.